410-412 vs. repeating 401

[tanouye]

[cristin44]

I held out for awhile, waiting for a 411 class, which was suggested to me by the school. I was excited by the idea of taking a cheaper 4-week, since I have taken 401 twice already. But I don't think I have seen one of them pop up ever. I started to think they were a myth. I have seen a few 410 and 412 here and there. Finally I resorted to looking for a 401 class, which just proved to be difficult to get into as well, and I watched a class sell out before it even popped up on my screen. I am limited to nights and weekends (like many people), so I am having a difficult time. I might have missed a couple classes popping up recently though. I might be giving up.

[hewins]

I'm going to be brutally honest in my reply here but first give a quick note of my personal situation.

I took 401, felt very good about it but was not expecting to get accepted into Adv Study (to be clear, I was not expecting to be denied either.) I did not get into Adv Study and it was recommended that I take one of the 4-week courses, which I did. I took 412, completed that class and then got accepted to Adv Study. (yay)

Here's why I think people may not like or take the 41x classes (and here's the brutal honesty): It felt like a collection of "us losers." It's the only class specifically for losers. I use the term even though I don't think anyone in the class was a "loser" but, in some sense, we all were losers because we'd all failed to get into Advanced Study. 401 classes may have some students who failed to get into Adv Study but the class (probably) is not comprised 100% of them. Again, to be clear, not that that's a bad thing. I got denied and I'm still alive and cool and funny and not depressed. So, for me that's the main reason. Perhaps because of that reason, the class didn't feel like it had as much energy or gung-ho as my 401 did, but that could be due to my specific classes. If I didn't get into Adv Study after 412, I would not have taken another 41x, I would have bit the bullet and taken 401 again as many times as necessary.

Pros/Cons of 41x & 401 for those who have failed to get accepted into Adv Study:

Advantages of 41x: shorter, cheaper, focused.
Disadvantages of 41x: only classes comprised of all "losers," no shows

Advantages of 401: shows, class cohesion
Disadvantages of 401: longer

[mattlewisesh]

I'll add my two cents. I also considered the 41Xs to be a myth. When the 41x program was announced last summer, I was really looking to get in one. But timing/availability wouldn't let me get in one. Then I never saw them listed again. I was keeping close tabs on this board, but eventually lost steam and stopped looking. Just happened to look yesterday and I signed up for the 412 with Ari, so that's awesome! 3 slots left as of a little while ago.

As for class shows. It would be nice for there to be one, but it was not a selling point for me. The shorter commitment, lower cost, and ability to re-apply for AS are the selling points for me. Really the re-applying was what sold me. If I could not reapply to AS I would not take a 41X course.

Since my 401 class, I've been committed to a strong indie team with regular practice, at least weekly shows, and a stellar coach that comes to shows AND gives notes on them. The point I'm making is that a class show is great but there are other ways to get stage time and notes on your performance.

[juliahp]

I just want to echo others' statements-- I'm absolutely dying to take a 410-412, but they come up so rarely. As soon as the next night/weekend one pops up, I'll be there. Please offer more! I think it's a fantastic program!

Thanks,
Julia

[AlexAlex]

I would very much like to take a 411 class but it looks like the last one offered was in July/August and that was on a week day afternoon, so I wouldn't have been able to take it anyway. And I think that was the only 411 that's been offered so far

As someone who recently completed 401, I’ve had a lot of conversations with classmates about applying for advanced study/passing 401/retaking 401. Here are reasons why people I know are choosing to retake 401 instead of a 41X class:

1) availability of the class. I’ve heard people say, “I’m going to take a 411 class or retake 401, whichever one goes up first.” The 401 will go up first, so that person enrolls in 401.

2) retaking 401 has a proven track record. These 41X classes are new and people aren’t sure about them. I’ve heard things like, “well, my friend took 401 a few times and then got approved. So I’m just going to do that.” I think people know that retaking 401s until they get approved is something that's worked for people. With the new classes, say they take a 412 and don’t get approved. What do they do then? They won’t want to wait another 6 months for a 412 to go up again, so they’d probably do another full 401. So they figure they might as well just skip that first 412 and take the second 401 right away. I'm not saying I agree with that line of thinking, but it's one that I've heard from people.

[jfuchs]

Earlier in the thread, Erik recommended that Advanced Study students not take another 401. Would he also recommend against taking a 410-412? With the new 3-class-per-year limit on Advanced Study classes, opportunities for classes are limited.

[tanouye]